Enclosure 4.
THE MEDICAL REGISTRATION BILL. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-The first motion which is down for me "to move in the order of the day is the second reading of the Opium Ordinance, 1881, but I believe it will be more convenient for the Council if I substitute that concerning the Medical Registration Ordinance. Therefore I now beg to move that the Council now go into committee on the Medical Registration Bill.
Mr. J. J. FRANCIS, who was present on behalf of Dr. Fisher-Before that motion is put to the Council I have an application to make to the Council with your Excellency's permission.
His EXCELLENCY-Under Standing Order 34 it is provided that before any gentleman not a member of the Council can address the Council, it is necessary that a motion that he should be heard shall be proposed and seconded by members of the Council.
Mr. RYRIE-I beg to propose that Mr. Francis be heard at the bar of the Council before the motion is put.
The Hon. W. KESWICK-I beg to second it. Carried
Mr. FRANCIS-May it please your Excellency -On Dr. Fisher's behalf, for whom I appear, I have to thank this hon. Council for their kindness in permitting me to appear on his behalf, and I hope, before I retire from the bar, to justify that indulgence, and satisfy them that Dr. Fisher has sufficient cause for his appeal now made to you. I appear here on behalf of Dr. Fisher to oppose this Medical Registration Ordinance, and I appear to oppose it on the ground that the tendency of it, and the effect of it, if passed, must be to affect Dr. Fisher's private interests. The clause in the Standing Orders of the Council under which I pray leave to appear is No. XXXIV, as follows-"In any case where individual rights or interests of property may be peculiarly affected by any proposed Bill, all parties interested may, on motion made, seconded, and carried, be heard before the Council, or any committee thereof, either in person or by their advocate."
I have, therefore, to satisfy you first, sir, that this Bill does in some way affect the individual rights or interests of Dr. Fisher, and if I succeed in doing that, I have no doubt that I have nothing farther to adduce, and that it will not be necessary for me to offer any other reasons for not passing this Bill, as I have no doubt whatever this hon. Council has no desire, by any of its measures, to injure unnecessarily the rights or interests of any member of the community unless it may be shown some important public interest is to be benefited thereby.
In the first place, then, I propose to consider who is Dr. Fisher, and what is he here, on whose behalf I appear, and then consider what this Bill is and what it purports to do, and then point out the connection between the two sets of facts. Dr. Fisher, as you are all aware, is an American citizen, and is a man qualified under the laws of the State of California, United States of America, to practise there as a medical practitioner, having passed a properly qualified examination, and he holds an honorary diploma from the Medical College of Fort Wayne in the State of Indiana as a doctor of medicine-a diploma granted only to distinguished physicians, and to men over 40 years of age.
He has been in the service of the United States Government as a medical officer for the State of San Francisco in one of the hospitals there. The certificates and documents I have referred to are here. He was also engaged for two years on one of the large steamers which run between here and San Francisco, and while practising on board that vessel, in the ports of Japan and here he obtained a very considerable reputation for dealing with certain cases diseases of the stomach, the most dangerous, and perhaps the most troublesome which are met with out here.
He was induced to settle down here, and for three or four years he has been practising, and practising with considerable success in Hongkong, and I think I am right in saying, as the law stands at this moment, Dr. Fisher, being what he is, and practising as he has been, his certificate on any subject affecting the medical profession, or any subject matter with reference to which a doctor's certificate is required, would be received and accepted without hesitation.
Dr. Fisher, although he may not, possibly, be entitled to sue as a physician for work done in that capacity purely, is in Common Law entitled to sue for such other work as he may perform as a surgeon or medical practitioner, not strictly speaking as a physician.
This Bill proposes to deprive him of these rights. Even supposing for a moment that he was not strictly and legally possessed of those rights to which I have alluded, and that in strict law his certificate might be disregarded, still, as a matter of fact, his certificates have always been received, and would always, as the law now stands, be received, and he is entitled as a matter of law, I think, to sue for and recover his fees.
And I submit to this hon. Council that even supposing Dr. Fisher is allowed to continue to practise here, and call himself a doctor without having any penalty imposed upon him, in what position will he stand before the public, and what success will he have here when he can be pointed out as a man who is prevented by law from suing for work done in a medical capacity, and when any junior clerk in an office in Hongkong may refuse to regard him as a medical man, and refuse to accept his certificate for any purpose?
These are two immediate and direct disqualifications which this Bill seeks to impose upon him. His position in the colony apart from the Bill gives him the right to those qualifications, and the effect of the Bill will be to deprive him of those two rights at least.
Now I put this to you, gentlemen; I put it to this hon. Council, that however simple and slight may be the effect-the immediate effect, in a pecuniary sense, of the operation of this Ordinance, should it pass the ultimate effects of it on Dr. Fisher's character and standing and general practice must be very grave and very serious, and I submit also for your consideration, sir, and for that of this hon. Council, whether there are any sufficient public reasons to justify the passing of this Ordinance, which will so bear upon the individual rights and interests of a member of this community.
There has been no public or general demand for legislation of any sort upon this matter. This legislation has been brought forward on the petition of the medical practitioners of this colony. It has only been since Dr. Fisher came into the colony-since Dr. Fisher largely and seriously interfered with the practice of the other medical men by depriving them of their clients.
They refused to meet Dr. Fisher in consultation, but their clients only said, "Very well, we will do without you, then, we will take Dr. Fisher." There can be no doubt that this Bill has been the outcome of a strong feeling of hostility on the part of his professional brethren towards Dr. Fisher.
It has not been, as was pointed out when the Bill was before the Council previously, the outcome of any public want, or any public necessity. As was said then, the public has gone on for 40 years without it very well, and can go on without it for 40 years more.
It is only partial in its operation, intended to affect people practising among the foreign or more educated community of this colony, who are perfectly qualified to judge for themselves whether a man is or is not a quack, and it does not allude to, but entirely excludes, those practising among the poor and ignorant Portuguese and Chinese population, for whom such an Act might possibly be of very great benefit.
It may be said and argued that the operation of this Act can do Dr. Fisher no harm if he holds the qualifications which I have stated he does hold, and that it is perfectly competent for him to come forward and be registered under this Ordinance.
But there the question of feeling to a certain extent arises. Can it reasonably be expected that Dr. Fisher will present himself before a board constituted of three of the medical gentlemen of this colony who have opposed him as bitterly as they have done?
There are also doctors of other nationalities who have come to practise among us in this cosmopolitan community. We have a large number of Americans and Germans in this colony, with the medical men of their own countries, whom they wish to bring here to attend them in their sickness; and is it right that a German or American doctor should have to go before a Council composed of third or fourth or fifth rate medical men practising in the colony, and submit to their judgment his qualifications-not only his personal qualifications, but the judgment and the good sense of the decision of the medical college, board of examiners, or the public board of their own country who have granted them their diplomas?
I submit that not only is there no necessity for such an Act, but it is in the highest degree inexpedient an Act containing these provisions.
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Enclosure 4.
ከ-
THE MEDICAL REGIST (ATION BILL. The ATTORNEY-ĞRNERAL-The first tion which is down for me "to move in t the order of the day is the second reading of the Opiam Ordinance, 1881. but I believe it will be more convenient for the Coanail if I substí. tute that oonoorning the Medical Registration Ordinance. Therefore I now beg to move that the Council now go into committee on the Medi oal Registration Bill.
Mr. J. J. FRANCIA, who was present ou ba. half of Dr. Fisher-Before that motion is put to the Council I have an application to make to the Council with your Excellency's permission.
His EXCELLENCY-Under Standing Order 34 it is provided that before any gentleman not a member of the Council can address the Council, it is necessary that a motion that he should ba heard shall be proposed and seconded by members of the Council.
Mr. RYRIE-I beg to propose that Mr. Fran- " ois be heard at the bar of the Council bofore the motion is put.
The Hon. W. KESWICK-I beg to second it. Carried
Mr. FRANCIS-May it please your Excellency -On Dr. Fisher's behalf, for whom I appear, I have to thank this hou. Council for their kini. ness in permitting me to appear on his behalf, and I hope, before I retire from the bar, to justify that indulgence, and satisfy them that Dr. Fisher has sufficient oase for his appeal now made to you. I appear here on behalf of Dr. Fisher to oppose this Madical Registration Ordinance, and I appear to oppose it on the ground that the tendoney of it, and the effect of it, if passed, must be to affect Dr. Fisher's pri vate interests. Tho olause in the Standing Orders of the Cancil under which I pray leave to appear is No. XXXIV. as follows-"In any case where individual rights or interests of property may be peculiarly affected by any proposed Bill, all parties interested may, on
notion made, seconded, and carried, be heard! before the Connoil, or any committee thereof. either in person or by their advocate." Γ have, therefore, to satisfy you first, sir, that this bill dogs in some way affect the individual rights or interests of Dr, Fisher, and if I sac- goed in doing that. I have no doubt that I have nothing farther to adl, and that it will not be necessary for me to offer any other reasons for not passing this bill, as I have no doubt whatever this hon, Council has no desire, by any of its massares, to injure unnecessarily the rights or interests of any member of the community unless it may be shown some im- portaut public interest is to be benefited thereby. In the first place, then, I propose to consider who is Dr. Fisher, and what is he here, on whose behalf I appear, and then consider what this Bill is and what it parports to do, and then point out the connection between the two sets of facts. Dr. Fisher, as you are all aware, is an American citizen, and is a man qualified andar the laws of the State of California, Unitol States of Asurios, to practics there as a medical practitioner, baving passed a properly qualified examination, and he holds an honorary diploms from the Welical College of Fort Wayne in the state of Tatiana as a doctor of medicine-a diplomarranted only to distinguished physicians, ! and to msu over 40 years of age. He has been in the service of the United States Government as & medical offloer for the State of San Francisco in one of the hospitals there. The certificates and documents I have referred to are here, Ho was! also engaged for two years on one of the large steamers which run between here and San Fran- cisco, and while practising on board that vessel, in the ports of Japan and here he obtained a very considerable reputation for dealing with certain cases diseases of the stomach, the most dange. rous, and perhaps the most troublesome which are met with out here. He was induced to settle down here, and for three or four years he bas been practising, and practising with consider- able snocesa in Hongkong, and I think I am right in saying, as the law stands at this mo- ment, Dr. Fisher, being what he is, and practis. ing as he has bees, his certificate on any subject affecting the medical profession, or any subject matter with reference to which a doctor's certificate is required, would bo received and accepted without hesitation. Dr. Fisher, although he may not, possibly, be entitled to sue as a physician for work dons in that capacity purely, is in Common Law entitled to sue for such other work as he may perform as a surgeon
or medical practitioner, not strictly speaking as a physician. This Bill proposes to deprive him of these rights. Even supposing for a moment that he was not strictly and legally possessed of those rights to which I have alluded, and that in strict law his certificate might be disre. garded, still, as a matter of fact, his certificates have always been reo-ived, and would always, as the law now stands, be received, and he is entitled as a matter of law, I think, to sue for and recover bis fees. And I submit to this bon. Council that even supposing Dr. Fisher is allowed to continue to practice here, and call himself & doctor without having any penalty imposed upon him, in what position will be stand before the public, and what success will be have hers when he can be pointed ont as a man who is prevented hy law from suein for work done in a medical sapacity, and when sny junior clark in an office in Hongkong may refuse to regard him as a medical mau, and refuse to accept his certificate for any pur- pose? These are two immediate and direct disqua- lifications which this Bill seeks to impose apon him. His position in the colony spart from the Bill gives him the right to those qualification. and the effect of the Bill will be to doprive him of those two rights at least, Now I put this to you, gentlemen; I put it to this hou. Council, that however simple and slight may be the effect -the immediate effect, in a pecuniary sense, of the operation of this ordinance, should it pass tbeultimate effects of it on Dr. Fisher's character' and standing and general practice must be very grave and very serious, and I submit also: for your consideration, sir, and for that of this hon. Council, whether there are any suficient public reasons to justify the passing of this Or. dinance, which will so bear upon the individual rights and interests of a member of this ccm. munity. There has been no public or general demand for legislation of any sort upon this matter. This legislation has been brought for- ward on the petition of the medical practitioners of this colony. It has only been since Dr. Fisher came into the colony-since Dr. Fisher largely and seriously interferod with the prac- tion of the other medical men by depriving them i of their clients. They refused to meet Dr. Fishes in consultation, but their clients only said, "Very well, we will do without you, then, we will take Dr. Fisher." There can be no doubt that this Bill has been the outcome of a strong feeling of hostility on the part of his pro- fessional brothron towards Dr. Fisher. It has not been, as was pointed out when the Bill was before the Council previously, the outcome of any publio want, or any public necessity. As was said then, the public has gone on for 40 ! years without it very well, and cau go on with. | ont it for 40 years more. It is only par- i tial in its operation, intended to affect people practising among the foreign or more educated community of this colony, who are perfectly qualife I to judge for themselvas whether a man is or is cut a quack, and it does not allude to, but entirely excludos, those practising among the poor and ignorant Portuguese and Chinese population, for whom such an Act might possibly be of very great benefit. It may be sail and argned that the operation of this Ant can do Dr. Fisher no harm if he holds the qualifications which I have statel he does hold, and that it is perfectly competent for him to come forward and be registered under this Or- dinance, But there the question of feeling to a certain extent arises. Can it reasonably be expected that Dr. Fisher will present himself before a board constituted of three of the medi- cal gentlemen of this colony who have opposed him as bitterly as they have done? There are also dostors of other nationalities who have come
to practice amont us in this cosmopolitan community. We have a large Dumber of Americans and Germans in this colony, with the medical men of their own countries. whom they wish to bring here to attend them in their sickness; and is it right that a
Gorman or American a conneil doctor should have to go before composed of third or fourth or fifth rate medioal men practising in the colony, and submit to their judgment his qualifiostions-not only his personal qualifications, but the judgment and the good sense of the decision of the modisal ool. lege, board of examiners, or the public board of their own country who have granted them their diplomas? I submit that not only is there uo na. enssity for such an Aot, but it is in the highest degree inexpedient an Act containing these pro.
588
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